How Generosity Shapes Our Lives and Faith With Pastor Charles “Chick” Lane

May 13, 2024

In this episode of You Can’t Take it With You, host Jim Dunlop sits down with Pastor Charles “Chick” Lane to discuss how generosity shapes our lives and faith. They explore the joy of giving, the impact of planned giving in retirement, and the powerful transformation that comes from living generously.

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Pastor Charles “Chick” Lane is a retired pastor from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) with a rich history of leading congregations in Pennsylvania and Minnesota. As an author of influential stewardship books and articles, he shares insights into the intersection of faith and finances. Chick has served in various prestigious roles, including Director for Stewardship in the ELCA and Director of the Center for Stewardship Leaders at Luther Seminary. Even in retirement, Chick continues to contribute as a stewardship consultant, empowering others in their generosity journey. His commitment to stewardship is reflected in his personal life, where he practices what he preaches alongside his wife, a retired elementary teacher.

Episode Summary:

Generosity isn’t just about giving money; it’s about transforming lives and enriching our faith. How can the act of giving reshape our perspectives and deepen our spiritual journeys?

According to Pastor Charles “Chick” Lane, an expert in stewardship and faith-based giving, generosity is a profound expression of faith that brings joy and fulfillment. Chick explains that individuals often discover a newfound sense of purpose and happiness through deliberate and consistent acts of giving. He emphasizes that generosity is not limited by the amount given but is defined by the spirit and intention behind it. Chick also highlights the importance of planned giving, especially for retirees, as a means to ensure that their legacy of generosity continues to make an impact. This shift in mindset and behavior, according to Chick, not only enhances personal faith but also contributes to a more compassionate and connected community.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Special Mentions

Quotable Moments

“I decided that it would be a good idea as pastor of the congregation to become a tither.”
“I found out that being generous was actually a lot of fun.”
“I don’t know too many grumpy generous people.”
“Don’t hide. Don’t hide behind excuses. Find ways to be generous.”
“You can’t take it with you.”

Action Steps

Start a commitment of regular giving to experience the transformative effect it can have on personal faith and community.
- Beginning with consistent, purposeful giving actions can precipitate a shift in mindset, fostering a greater sense of responsibility and joy in generosity.
Have conversations with people who exemplify generosity to understand their motivations and learn from their journey.
- Engaging personally with generous individuals can provide valuable insights and engender an enthusiasm for adopting similar practices in one’s own life.
Explore nonprofit organizations and community causes to direct your generosity where it can have a meaningful impact.
- Selecting causes that resonate personally ensures that your contributions feel fulfilling and encourages continued generosity.
For retirees, consider revising estate plans to include charitable giving, reflecting a lifetime commitment to generosity.
- Estate planning is a strategic way to extend one’s generosity beyond a lifetime, ensuring that the values of giving continue to shape communities and lives.
As churches and communities begin convening in person again post-COVID, seek out opportunities to contribute time and resources.
- Participating actively in the revival of community gatherings can rekindle connections and amplify the positive outcomes of collective generosity efforts.

Sponsor for this episode:

This episode is brought to you by Advent Partners — a financial planning partner dedicated to helping you make informed decisions that simplify your financial journey.

Our seasoned team is committed to guiding you toward your financial goals. We offer tailored solutions based on your specific needs, from standalone financial planning to integrated financial management.

Whether you are planning for the future, investing for growth, or navigating financial hurdles, Advent Partners is here to provide insights, recommendations, and a clear financial roadmap.

To learn more about Advent Partners and how we can guide your financial success, visit AdventPartnersFP.com.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:00

Welcome to the You Can’t Take it With You show where we feature stories around generosity designed to inspire and encourage others to do meaningful things in their communities. Now, here’s your host, Jim Dunlop.

Jim Dunlop 0:16

Hi, Jim Dunlop here, a wealth advisor and host of the show where I sit down with people who get it when it comes to generosity. I’m excited to have guests who can give us stories on generosity to not only inspire our listeners, but to give practical ideas on ways we can give. Today’s guest is Pastor Chick Lane. But before we get to Chick, I want to share that this episode is brought to you by Advent Partners ready for good. Advent is a financial planning team dedicated to helping you make informed decisions that simplify your financial journey. Whether you’re planning for the future, investing for growth, or navigating financial hurdles. Advent partners are here to provide insights, recommendations, and a clear financial roadmap. To learn more about Advent Partners and how we can guide your financial success, visit readyforgood.com. Before introducing today’s guest, I want to give a big thank you to our previous guest, Angela Zimman and her husband Marty for connecting us with Chick when another guest Grace Pomroy found out we’re interviewing Chick she was so excited that she said she would have rather done her interview alongside Chick. If you haven’t had a chance to listen to my conversations with Angela or Grace, please check them out at canttakeitwithyou.com. So Chick Lane is a retired pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. He served three congregations, one in Pennsylvania and two in Minnesota. He was assistant to the bishop in the Northwestern Minnesota Synod, Director for Stewardship Key Leader in the ELCA churchwide organization and Director of the Center for Stewardship Leaders at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is the author of Ask, Thank, Tell: Improving Stewardship Ministry in Your Congregation, and Reflections on Faith & Finances. He’s the co-author of Embracing Stewardship. He is also the author of two stewardship response programs and several articles on stewardship. Following retirement from full time ministry, Chick worked as a stewardship consultant with Kairos and Associates, and as a part time pastor for stewardship at Lord of Life Lutheran Church in Maple Grove, Minnesota. He lives in Maple Grove, Minnesota with his wife, Chris, who is a retired elementary teacher. Welcome, Chick.

Charles “Chick” Lane 2:22

Thank you.

Jim Dunlop 2:23

I’m really excited to have you here. And your name is one that I’ve known for a long time. And that probably 16 – 17 years ago, when we were trying to get our Stewardship Committee at our church up and running. Your book was brought to us, and we had a chance to read and discuss and help think about developing our stewardship campaign, if you will, that year with some of those things, but don’t want to belabor that point. I would like to ask Chick if you could share a little bit more about your background, maybe a little mini autobiography for our listeners to get a feel for who you are.

Charles “Chick” Lane 3:07

Thanks. I’d love to. First of all, thanks for the invitation. Jim, it is great to have a chance to talk. I grew up in Middletown, Ohio, which is twin Cincinnati and Dayton, I think hence the name Middletown. I grew up in a kind of typical middle-class family. My dad was an insurance regional manager, my mom, and in those days, like many moms, didn’t work until the kids were in college. And then she did. And church and generosity were a big part of growing up. My parents were very active in our Lutheran congregation. I had no idea what they gave, but I knew that they gave every week because I saw the offering envelope go into the plate as it went by. And they were involved in lots of community organizations. So I grew up with a sense of volunteering and a sense of generosity. I left southern Ohio and went to college in Iowa at Luther College and then went to Luther Seminary in St. Paul. You read the congregations, and the ministry track that I was on. Stewardship has always been an important part of my ministry. When I was in the congregation, I spent a lot of energy as a congregational pastor, helping people think about their generosity and about how being generous is a component of faith. So that’s, it’s not like I’ve just been thinking about stewardship for the last 20 years or so since it came out. It’s always been an important part of my life and an important part of my ministry.

Jim Dunlop 5:00

You’ve shared a little bit about watching your parents model that behavior, do you? Can you share a little bit of your own generosity origin story? You’ve devoted much of your professional life and your called ministry to this idea of stewardship. And I’ll conflate that with the idea of generosity. Could you tell me what your origin story is and how this became such an important part of your ministry Chick?

Charles “Chick” Lane 5:26

Certainly, it’s an embarrassing story, actually. It goes back to my first call, which was in a large congregation in Butler, Pennsylvania, I decided that it would be a good idea as pastor of the congregation to become a tither. I talked with my wife about that we decided to embark on that journey. The motivation is what’s embarrassing. Our salaries were published in the annual report. So everybody in the congregation knew what I made. And I gave the same amount twice a month. And there, we had money counters, and they were all smart enough to multiply that amount and find out how much I was giving. And I figured you know what, they’re going to catch me if I talk about generosity. And if I talk about tithing, and I’m not doing it myself. So basically, I became a tither to cover my own backside, which is a horrible motivation. But what happened, and the other thing I need to say about that is that I figured out that the only way that I could pull that off is to give first. So each time I got paid, the first check that was written was the check to St. Mark Lutheran Church. I figured if I didn’t do that, first, it wasn’t going to happen. And I continue to believe that was true. What happened, and this is why the bad story, or the awkward story becomes a good story is that I discovered that when I did that, it changed me. It changed my attitude toward the church, I think it changed my faith. And I found out that being generous was actually a lot of fun. So it started out maybe as a kind of a duty. And it ended very quickly, becoming something of a delight. And it’s been that way ever since. So we figured out that when I was a seminary student, we were given about 5% away. So we developed a two-year plan. We went from 5% to seven and a half in the first year of my ministry there. And then the second year, we got to 10. And then over the years, the generosity giving has moved beyond just the congregation, we support other organizations now, also. But that was the story. It started horribly and ended up wonderfully.

Jim Dunlop 8:15

Well, sometimes God is calling us through unique means to a life of service and into ministry. And so I love that story, because it’s authentic, and, and probably brutally honest. And so thank you for sharing that.

Charles “Chick” Lane 8:34

One other thing about that is that not then but much later, I started to run into the phrase, it’s easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than to think your way into a new way of acting. And I believe that to be true, that was my experience. You know, I had to move to a new level of generosity. Not because I wanted to, but because I felt like I should and once I did, that action drove my thinking rather than vice versa. I think if I had to wait until it felt like giving twice as much away, I would never have done it. Yeah.

Jim Dunlop 9:19

I can appreciate that. So you’ve had a long ministry, you’ve served a lot of churches and then you’ve also worked in the larger church. Any stories come to mind of generous acts or behavior that you got to see along the way, maybe having a front row seat to or experiencing yourself that you would share with our listeners.

Charles “Chick” Lane 9:44

Yeah. Three come to mind. Okay. Two are personal and one is out of the literary world. All right. When I was pastor in a congregation, I knew what people gave. And I will argue to anybody who wants to listen that I think the pastor should know that. I saw one couple who over about three years were giving double. And I went to them. And I simply, you know, sat down in their living room and said, This is what I’ve observed. This is wonderful. What’s going on? And that, you know, thank you, and what’s going on? And we talked, and I don’t know which came first, the chicken or the egg. But they also talked about it. So they said, Yeah, we’ve decided that we want to give more to the church. And we’ve decided that we want to get more involved in the church. So those two things went hand in hand. Again, I’m not sure chicken in the egg did the involvement come first, the beginning came first, who knows. But obviously, their life gradually over a period of two or three years changed. And giving being generous to the church. And I think other organizations change. And they changed. Their worship went from occasional to every week, their involvement in the congregation went from not much to a lot. And they’re giving more than doubled. And to see that was just so cool. You know, nobody else knew that. I don’t think anybody else, people in the congregation probably saw that they were there more. But it was just a marvelous transformation. And honestly, I’m no longer a pastor of that congregation, but I kind of kept track of them for a while. And it held, they stayed much, much more involved in the life of the congregation. So that’s just a modest little one couple in a small town in Minnesota. But it made a big difference. Second story is a guy that I visited when I was consulting with his congregation doing a capital appeal. And I always started my consultation with congregations by asking if I could sit down with about 15 people and just chat. So we had a half an hour, and I knew that he gave quite generously to the congregation. And I picked up from the pastor that he gave generously to other organizations in the community. So I simply said to him, let’s talk about this. How is it that generosity is so important in your life? And his response was, he laughed out loud? And he said, Well, somewhere along the line, I figured out, it’s not mine anyway. It’s God’s. And God has told me that God wants me to give it away. And I’m having a blast doing what God told me to do with God’s stuff. What a wonderful story. I’ve noticed over the years that most people who are really generous, are pretty happy people. They delight in what they’re doing. And again, I’m not sure if that happiness led to the generosity, or the generosity led to the happiness, but I don’t know too many grumpy, generous people. I know quite a few grumpy, stingy people, but not so many grumpy, generous people. So there’s my experiences, there’s a correlation between really enjoying life and being generous.

Jim Dunlop 13:58

I’ll just jump in real quick and share a study that I came across in a class I was taking, and I wish I could reference it more specifically, but at all income levels. People, the more generous they were, the more financially successful they were. And that’s not obviously you’d say, well, if you’re, you’re rich and have lots of money to give away it doesn’t you know, you’re going to be fine anyway. But that that wasn’t that didn’t matter which income level you were at and so I think like you there’s this strong correlation between contentment and financial contentment and generosity that pervades all up and down all levels of income. So go ahead.

Charles “Chick” Lane 14:42

Yeah, my experience as a pastor is that that is precisely true. I haven’t seen this study. But lots of times people say that, you know, you can kind of tell by what people do for their occupations, whether they have a lot of money or not so much. People who were generous at all different kinds of income levels had that attitude of delight about them. It wasn’t about how much it was about the percentage of what they had, that they’re giving away. So my one other story, and if you’ve read last night tell you’ve read this story. And this is the one from the literary world, my favorite generosity story in all of life is the story of Ebenezer Scrooge, from Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, where Scrooge starts out. Dickens describes him as secret and self-contained as solitary as an oyster. And for anybody who knows the story, you know, he’s just as miserable as miserable can be. And then he gets scared by three Christmas ghosts, and comes out on the other end, a changed person. And one of the first things he does is send a huge Christmas turkey to poor Bob Cratchit, who’s endured him for years. And after he sends the turkey, Dickens says that he sat down and chuckled until he cried. What a transformation. And again, I think living generously, often leads from that transition from solitary as an oyster to chuckling until you cry. And it’s just what a great story.

Jim Dunlop 16:32

It’s one of my favorite stories, and I have the audio version. And I listen to it every year in December. And, and one of the lines that I love from the beginning of the book, because it makes me laugh. And before Scrooge’s transformation is, he’s talking about going into his house, and he has just one little candle and, and they said, you know, darkness was cheap, and Scrooge loves that.

Charles “Chick” Lane 17:01

Great line.

Jim Dunlop 17:02

But then at the end of the story, he opens the windows, and the light comes pouring in. And he’s much happier. So, Chick, you’ve had a long career. And now you know, you’re still doing a lot in the stewardship space in the generosity space. But you’re retired. And I think in talking with you a little bit that that has changed maybe your perspective. Can you talk a little bit about generosity and how your thoughts and maybe how you’ve observed others, once they’re retired, how their thoughts around generosity evolve or shift, how opportunities present themselves differently?

Charles “Chick” Lane 17:47

Yeah. A couple of preliminary thoughts. First, retired people, like people in every other age bracket in society, have incredibly diverse lives and incredibly diverse resources. I know many who are retired, are really scrimping. And that’s tough for them. And that’s the case, you know, again, through all sorts of age groups. But many who are retired aren’t one of my least favorite phrases that I hear occasionally, from retired people is I’m living on a fixed income. And it often comes across to me as an excuse. I don’t want to think about giving anything away because I’m living on a fixed income. Well, yeah, well, most people live on fixed incomes, whether they’re retired or not. And sometimes that income can be fixed fairly high. And generosity can be a big part of that. So that’s one thought is to just acknowledge that, that there, there’s a huge range of retired people in terms of the assets that they have. And I would never want to be heard to say that, that people who are struggling to get by should live recklessly with the little bit that they have no, not that at all. The other thing that I think is important is that one of the things that I see is a lot of fear about running out of money. A lot of people that I talked to that are retired, that’s a real fear for them. And I want to acknowledge that. That’s real. Having said that, I think that a lot of retired people that I know are in a more generous time with their talents and with their treasure maybe than they ever have been. And we just think we need to not. We as retired people need to not step back and say, well, it’s somebody else’s turn. Now. That’s another phrase I hate. It’s still my turn. And I think that for those who are looking in a church or in any other organization, if you want to get retired people involved in sharing your time and their talents, I’d encourage you to be very specific in the task. Don’t, don’t put out a blanket invitation and expect too many retired people to respond. But if you take somebody aside and say, we’ve got this job, and I think you’d be good at it, would you help us out? I think you’re going to get a lot better response. And then for retired people, I think, you know, don’t hide, don’t hide behind excuses, find ways to be generous. My wife and I put two kids through college, and we had all kinds of financial obligations, and those are behind us now. We’re in a situation where we can be more generous than we have ever been. And I think that that’s not true for everybody. But it’s true for a lot of people. And so, encourage us, don’t assume that we don’t have resources many of us do. And invite us, ask us.

Jim Dunlop 21:24

I love that. And, and I, and I think, too, you know, the thing that we get to that point, people get to that point of retirement, and the house is paid off, the kids are out of school, and it is hopefully successfully launched. And, and so then, you know, all of a sudden, that income that we were used to goes a lot farther because we don’t have all those commitments we had when we were working. And so I think that certainly rings true. I know you made the comment that you didn’t weren’t sure how many retired people listen to the podcast. And I don’t know the answer to that either. Other than most of my guests, not all of them, but a lot of them have retired. And I’m certainly hoping that our listeners are some of our clients who are maybe new into retirement and starting to think about, you know, ways that they can have a positive impact. And give some specific, you know, get some specific ideas, from listening to the folks who are here. So I really appreciate you sharing all that.

Charles “Chick” Lane 22:30

One more thing. And that is, you know, somewhere I heard this phrase, you can’t take it with you. I don’t know, where did I hear that? You can’t? And for a lot of us. Yeah, you know, I’m, I’m looking forward to my kids having some of my assets when I’m gone. But they don’t need all of it. They’re doing just fine. Thank you. And so, you know, if tithing has been important to me through my whole life, why wouldn’t I want tithing and more to be important as I leave this life. So, you know, that’s another way if people are worried about running out of money, state planning can be a great way to live generously. And you can only give out of what you got left. So it’s a way. And I think a lot of people have figured that out.

Jim Dunlop 23:33

I like it. Thank you. That’s really helpful. And you’re right, you can’t take it with you. That’s where I meet with clients, you know, who have done a good job. And most of our clients are disciplined savers. They tend to be generous and sometimes get a little stuck. And the thing that I remind them, as we’re talking about financial planning is, hey, look, you can’t take it with you. So what do you want to happen here? And are you doing the things for yourself, your family, and certainly others that you’ve always wanted to do? Because at the end of this, there’s the story of the gentleman who was insistent that he be buried with all his money. And so at the funeral, people felt really bad for the wife. And, and so somebody went up to the wife and said, I heard he wanted to take it all with them. What are you going to do? She says, Oh, no problem. I wrote him a check and tucked it in the coffin with him. So I’ve heard that. But so, you know, I, I really appreciate Chick you sharing all this with us today. And the stories are things that I think are really helpful for all of us to hear over and over again. And I do have a final question, but before I get to that, was there anything else that you’re working on right now that’s exciting to you that you want to share with our listeners or something that you’re looking forward to that is worth sharing.

Charles “Chick” Lane 25:10

Now, a personal thing, and that is, in the world of the church, it feels like COVID is finally over. And people are starting to get together again. And so I’m having the opportunity to go out over the next few months and do some conferences that I wondered if there would ever be conferences again. So it’s not so much about me, it’s just about some excitement that God’s people are finally feeling like they can start to get together again. And that’s just such a wonderful thing.

Jim Dunlop 25:49

Yeah, we’re, we’re two or more are gathered. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree, I think back to four years ago, at this time, and we were, you know, or three and a half years ago, at this time, we were finally sitting in the church parking lot, 10 feet apart from each other, trying to have worship, and things like that. And it is gratifying to be back in our churches and our communities. So before I get to my last question, I just want to point people to your website, if you’re interested in interacting with Chick, you can go to embracingstewardship.com. And our listeners can find your books through the publisher, Augsburg Fortress. And actually I lied, I have two questions. The first is your given name is Charles. But you’re referred to as Chick. What’s the story there? And that you’re not Charles but Chick?

Charles “Chick” Lane 26:47

Well, I’m actually both officially, but it’s a family nickname. And the story that I got from my mom and dad was that they, Charles, was my grandfather’s name. And on one side and my great grandfather’s name on the other, so they wanted me to be Charles. And they didn’t want me to be Chuck or Charlie, no offense to those who are Chuck or Charlie. And my mom’s had a couple of people a few generations back that were Chick that was a nickname. And so I’ve been Chick since birth.

Jim Dunlop 27:27

Neat. Well, thank you for sharing. So my last question is, if we went and paid for a billboard for you, where you could reach lots of people, what would your message or advice on that billboard be?

Charles “Chick” Lane 27:44

I’m not creative enough to come up with cute little phrases, but it would be something like it’s not yours. It’s God’s, give it away. Or something like that. One of them, at the heart of ask, thank, tell. And the message that’s there is that understanding, that biblically, the message we receive is that everything belongs to God, God’s the creator of all it is, and God is still the owner of all that is. And that, for some strange reason, God has decided that God should entrust some of what God owns to each one of us. And our job is to manage that, to care for that, to steward that to use the biblical word. And we’re to do that, not toward the end of enriching ourselves. But we have to do that toward the end of making life better for other people. And you can’t get all that on a billboard, but I’d sure like to try. So it’s really, to me, generosity is one of the ways…I’m a preacher, so this is going to sound like a sermon. Generosity is one of the ways that I live my faith in my day-to-day life, one of the major ways actually. And I’m really not being very faithful if I’m not living that way. Because scriptures are really clear that that’s what God wants for us is to live that way with what God has entrusted into our care. So fit that on a billboard, Jim.

Jim Dunlop 29:41

I’ll try. But Chick, thank you so much for being with us today. This was really good to hear. And, and also, I think it’s inspiring, and so I really appreciate your time. Thank you for being here with us.

Charles “Chick” Lane 29:56

Thanks for the invitation.

Outro 30:00

Thanks for joining us to hear stories of generosity that remind us that you can’t take it with you. Visit our site at canttakeitwithyou.com. For more details on today’s episode, and to subscribe to future shows.

Disclosure 30:17

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How Generosity Shapes Our Lives and Faith With Pastor Charles “Chick” Lane

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