Beyond Money: The Ripple Effect of Generosity with Angela Zimmann
In this episode of You Can’t Take it With You, Angela Zimmann, Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Wilson College, joins Jim Dunlop to discuss the expansive nature of generosity. They discuss Angela’s journey from industrial engineering to philanthropy, the transformative power of generosity in various forms, and inspiring stories of unexpected, life-changing donations. This conversation highlights how every act of kindness, big or small, contributes to a broader culture of giving and compassion.
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Angela Zimmann is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement at Wilson College, a prestigious institution known for its comprehensive academic offerings and commitment to student success. Her career has been marked by diverse roles and accomplishments. She holds a degree in Industrial Engineering and has been an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America since 1999, serving congregations in the United States and overseas.
Prior to her current role at Wilson College, Angela was the Vice President for Institutional Advancement at United Lutheran Seminary, where she briefly served as the interim president. During her tenure at United Lutheran, she played a pivotal role in securing a $35 million gift, significantly contributing to student scholarships.
Jim and Angela will discuss:
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- What Angela does at Wilson College
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- Running a successful fundraising campaign
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- Angela’s journey from being an industrial engineering major to her current role
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- The origin story of Angela’s generosity
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- Stories of benevolence from Angela’s days working at the seminary
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- The importance of leaving margins in life for altruism
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- The value of sound financial planning while also being generous
Episode Summary:
What truly defines generosity? Is it limited to financial giving, or does it encompass a broader spectrum of our actions and interactions with others?
According to Angela Zimmann, a distinguished leader in institutional advancement and philanthropy, generosity extends far beyond monetary contributions. Angela emphasizes that true generosity involves sharing time, energy, and empathy, which creates a ripple effect. Her story shows that every moment of understanding and kindness we offer to those around us can significantly contribute to a culture of generosity, transforming not just individual lives but entire communities in the process.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sponsor for this episode:
This episode is brought to you by Advent Partners — a financial planning partner dedicated to helping you make informed decisions that simplify your financial journey.
Our seasoned team of professionals is committed to guiding you toward your financial goals. We offer tailored solutions based on your specific needs, from standalone financial planning to integrated financial management.
Whether you are planning for the future, investing for growth, or navigating financial hurdles, Advent Partners is here to provide insights, recommendations, and a clear financial roadmap.
To learn more about Advent Partners and how we can guide your financial success, visit AdventPartnersFP.com.
Episode Transcript:
Intro 0:00
Welcome to the You Can’t Take it With You show where we feature stories around generosity designed to inspire and encourage others to do meaningful things in their communities. Now, here’s your host, Jim Dunlop.
Jim Dunlop 0:17
Hi, Jim Dunlop here, a wealth advisor and host of this show where I sit down with people who get it when it comes to generosity. I’m excited to have guests who can give us stories on generosity to not only inspire our listeners, but to give practical ideas on ways we can give. Today’s guest is Angela Zimmann. However, before we get to Angela, I want to share that this episode is brought to you by Advent Partners, get ready for good. Advent is a financial planning team dedicated to helping you make informed decisions that simplify your financial journey. Advent’s seasoned team of professionals is committed to guiding you toward your financial goals. We offer tailored solutions based on your specific needs. From standalone financial planning to integrated financial management, we help our clients get ready for good whether you are planning for the future, investing for growth or navigating financial hurdles. Advent Partners is here to provide insights, recommendations and a clear financial roadmap to learn more about Advent Partners and how we can guide your financial success, visit readyforgood.com.
You know, I met Angela eight years ago and she and her husband Marty bought the house at the end of our street. As you hear her biography and her story today, you’ll see why I’m excited to speak with her. So, the Reverend Dr. Angela Zimmann, holds a degree in Industrial Engineering and has been an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America since 1999, serving congregations both domestically and overseas. She currently serves as the Vice President for Institutional Advancement at Wilson College. Before that she was Vice President for Institutional Advancement at United Lutheran Seminary and spent eight months as the interim president. It was during Angela’s tenure at United Lutheran that the school received a $35 million gift, which currently provides up to full scholarship support for every student in seminary. So, Angela, welcome. And there’s a lot that we could unpack and talk about. But let’s jump in and talk a little bit about your current work at Wilson College. And I think you guys are in the midst of a campaign. So, tell me what that looks like? And how’s that going for you?
Angela Zimmann 2:27
We are, thank you for asking Jim. And I’m so glad to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. So, I’ve been at Wilson College for almost three years. And I got there in the middle of COVID. We were, you know, still following protocols and whatnot. So, it’s been an interesting experience. And of course, we had bits of—Wilson has a very small school—and we had the same financial challenges that so many places had after COVID. And coming out of COVID, with enrollment declines and kind of challenges like this. So, we set about to raise $20 million, which was a modest goal. And our board said, “Well, 20 million maybe is not maybe is even a little overreach.” So, they approved a campaign of 16 million. Okay. And after the first year, we were able to announce that we had already raised 12 million, and we are now north of 14 million. And we will have some very good news to announce coming up about a year before the campaign is set to end that the numbers are quite strong. So, we’re very excited about what’s happening there. And it’s been so inspiring to see people respond in such energetic ways for current expenses, because people often like to give to buildings or new programs or those types of things. And these are folks who stepped up and said, We know that you need to pay the bills today. And so that’s what’s been what’s been going on and it’s been wonderful. And I have a lot of stories I can share from the campaign about people’s reasons for giving. And, uh, you just tell me what, how much you want me to share about this?
Jim Dunlop 4:12
Absolutely. That’s so awesome. So, do you have one that has inspired you? I’m sure you have many. But can you think of one that you’d be willing to share with our listeners that’s inspired somebody why they decided to open up their checkbook or share something of financial value with the institution?
Angela Zimmann 4:30
Sure, sure. Sure. My very favorite story at this point in time and there again, there are so many stories that I’ve heard from people, but I talked with an alum from the 1960s. Wilson was a women’s college and wasn’t aware it was a women’s college with co-ed about 10 years ago. So, everyone is welcome. But when it was a women’s college in the 1960s and this alum has become incredibly successful, she is in fact she did a wealth management financial services very similar to what you do just outside of the DC area. And she just started doing that part of her life when she was 50 years old. So, she graduated from Wilson, and did quite a lot of things, including broadcasting. So, she probably is good at what you’re doing now to and when she was about 50, she decided she wanted to go into wealth management and financial services. She started an all-women firm and was incredibly successful. And, and gives back to Wilson as a result of that. But when I asked her, I said, “Why do you give so much to Wilson? And, and why Wilson,” I’m not you know, she gives to her church, she gives to a lot of things, but I said, “Why Wilson,” and she said, “Wilson College saved my life.” Oh, wow. And I sort of unpacked that with her a little bit. And she had been having some real struggles when she first started some mental health challenges. And she said, you know, Wilson, quite literally, is the reason why I am still alive today, why I am still here. And that struck me because Wilson College is still doing that. Wilson College is in the business of helping our students in every way that we possibly can. And I have heard current students say, “Wilson College is saving my life.” And so, what more can you give in exchange for your life, right to pull a theological reference out? What can we do? What can you do, and so she just gives extravagantly to Wilson College, because it is her very, very life that was saved. So that’s my very favorite story.
Jim Dunlop 6:47
I wonder if the people who were very instrumental in her life when she was a student there are still around or have any awareness of the legacy that probably the gestures and things they did 50 years ago, or 60 years ago, the impact that that that had on her life, and the legacy of just being good in kind human beings 60 years ago, and what that led to today, right?
Angela Zimmann 7:15
And that and that ripple effect, right? Their kindness helped her save her life. She’s now giving back that kindness is so impactful in the lives of the students there today, who then that I mean, it’s just an amazing, sort of ripple effect. I think the cascade effect, sometimes we call it, yeah. Cool.
Jim Dunlop 7:39
So, I am going to jump around here a little bit. And I, you know, I’ve known you and your family for a while now and have always enjoyed spending time with you guys. And full and fair disclosure, my kids have pet sat for the Zimmanns. And once upon a time your daughter babysat for my kids when they were young. But what I didn’t know about you that I learned as we were preparing for today is that you were an industrial engineering major. And so, you’ve had kind of an interesting arc and journey to get to where you are, could you take a few minutes and just share, like, where you started? Why do you do what you do today? And how did that change from where you thought you might start when you were in college?
Angela Zimmann 8:26
Sure, sure, sure. Glad to do that. And I think it’s pretty common, right? That people think they are going to do one thing. And then as they get into it, they say, “Oh, well, maybe this is not necessarily for me,” although I would say that I use my industrial engineering background every day in my work. And I used it in my context as a parish pastor as well. And when I went into industrial engineering, I grew up in a family that was lower middle class, maybe middle, struggling towards middle class, um, none of my grandparents graduated from college, or high school. And that shocks people, they will say, “Oh, college, okay, we get it,” but high school. No, they just didn’t have the economic opportunity to do that. My mom didn’t have the opportunity to graduate from college. My dad did, but he was almost 30 when he did, and he did it by working part time. So, my family had some—and I was a single child, not by choice, but that was what my parents wound up with, and, and so because of that, I had a few more resources that I probably wouldn’t have had if I had siblings but still it was modest. And so, I wanted to go into a career where I could make a good living. And so, I understood that I was good at math and science and that that would be a lucrative field. And so, my initial intention was to get a JD and become a patent attorney. And after graduating from college, I was accepted at Ohio State Law School, that’s where I was going to go. And I changed my mind because as I did some work in the engineering field, I started realizing that what was bringing me joy was talking to the people on the line, and us and not so much making things go faster, better, and increasing the bottom line, which I completely understood. That was the goal. And that was my job was to, you know, how can we, how can we, how can we do just in time manufacturing, and we had to move this stuff along, we have this amount of efficiency was key. And that wasn’t bringing me as much joy as I had initially thought it would. So, I ended up kind of changing course and going into the ministry. And then as time evolved, I realized that efficiency is not, in and of itself a bad thing. Efficiency is a wonderful thing. But efficiency when it’s used in the service of, of bringing greater joy to the world and serving the world, or more effectively, rather than efficiency, in the interest of grinding people down. And that was what I was seeing in some of my industrial engineering work that it was just all about the bottom line and grinding people down. If they were, if they were the collateral damage. So be it and I didn’t want to work in that way. So, in nonprofit fundraising, and higher ed fundraising, I’m able to utilize the efficiencies and the data. And I talk about being data influenced, as opposed to data driven. Sure, because data driven is like giving all the control to the data. No, but we need to be influenced by the data. And I can use those pieces, and for good, and so I love what I do, and I’m thrilled to be to be seen. The good that can come from high efficiency, performance. And, and data. And yep, so that’s, that’s a bit of that.
Jim Dunlop 12:04
Yeah. So, generosity is a really important part of your life. Absolutely. What, what, what were the influences? Or what’s the origin story for Angela, in terms of why you’re and I know, you’d be a very generous person in lots of ways, but what’s your origin story? And, of course, that has to result in you where you are today, because this is your professional and life’s work. Right?
Angela Zimmann 12:30
There are so many Jim and to be honest, I think when we think about generosity right away, we think about money, but generosity extends far beyond the limits of money. And when I was growing up, I experienced extreme generosity from the people around me. And it wasn’t always in money, because there wasn’t always money with which to be generous. So, it was time and energy. And even something as simple as driving down the street. And thinking that you’re going to be generous to the drivers around you and understand that they may be having a bad day. And so, if they’re going to cut you off, you’re just going to be generous and give them grace. And so, I think understanding that generosity definitely includes money, but it is all inclusive of our existence. And that when I was growing up, I experienced that from a very financial perspective, part of what has driven me into this is the church I grew up in and Epiphany Lutheran in Toledo, Ohio, which is currently celebrating their 100th anniversary. They were founded in 1923, or 1924, and I’m excited to be going out there in April to be preaching and helping them celebrate their anniversary, but they had a fund called the kemfer fund. And that was established in honor of a longtime pastor there. And they provided full scholarships for any member of that congregation who wished to attend seminary. And there were times where they would have three or four members of the congregation in seminary at the same time. And so, when I went to seminary back in the 90s, my seminary education was completely paid for by the congregation where I grew up. And so, I was able to graduate from seminary with no debt. And that had nothing to do with me, my merit, any, I had completely no deserving of it. It was just a gift. And I really feel like again, that sort of spiral effect, that cascading effect that this was given to me, I want to be able to do something to give back. And I can’t necessarily personally give back scholarships to you know, every seminary student but I can help, you give so that the seminary, or so every seminary student, can have a scholarship, or every college student can have a scholarship. So, I’m just, I’m just giving back what was given to me. So, no great shakes, you know, just here to serve.
Jim Dunlop 15:14
So, what’s as people would get to know you? What’s something that would be something that maybe people wouldn’t ordinarily know about you? Or would be surprised to learn about you?
Angela Zimmann 15:27
Oh, that’s, ah, gosh, I don’t know. I mean, I think, I think of myself as a very eclectic person. I have interests all over the place. And I, you know, I love for example, I love all kinds of music. I’m the only person in my family who loves country music. I also love classical music. So, but you know, a lot of times when I’m preaching in a church, I’ll pull a quote from a country music song, and I’ll say, oh, you know, this is this was so great from, you know, Garth Brooks or I mean, he’s, you know, whatever. And, and people will say, Oh, we just didn’t imagine that you would like country music. And I said, you know, I love country music. I love playing bingo. And I also love doing calculus. So, I mean, it’s, it’s, I don’t think that we need to be, we need to divide ourselves into little categories. We can, we can enjoy all kinds of things. So, I think people and I love to talk to all kinds of people. I’ve got friends everywhere on the political spectrum, everywhere on the religious spectrum. I value hearing different people’s stories, and I love to listen. So, I’m looking forward to hearing from other people. You’re interviewing these podcasts. Yeah. And hearing what they say.
Jim Dunlop 16:41
Absolutely. Well, I think, again, this being a podcast about generosity, and you’ve worked around lots of generous people, both, obviously at Wilson, but then also in your work with the seminary, and also in your work in ministry and so on. Is there a particular story that comes to mind that you found inspiring beyond your current role at Wilson, that just demonstrates somebody giving in a way that was maybe surprising and heartwarming, and, you know, I see these. It’s the story that you hear and it’s like, man, there’s still really good things happening in this world.
Angela Zimmann 17:24
Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Well, I have to tell the Kelly Ellis story from the seminary if that’s okay. Yeah. I think when I was working at the seminary, I had the opportunity to visit one of the saints of the Lutheran church named Kelly Ellis. And she lived out in rural Indiana. And she had been involved with the church, the church for a long time in the seminary for a long time, her father had been a pastor. And when I met Kelly, she was in her 90s. And she lived in a very modest care facility. Again, Central, you know, rural Indiana, she lived in a modest care facility, while she had previously lived in a small ranch home. And then she wanted to leave a state gift to the seminary. And no one really knew, you know, how much it was, she had never said, we kind of asked just for just for our record keeping purposes, X expectancies, but you know, we didn’t push when she said, “no, you know, you know, you’ll find out,” okay, that’s fine. And then when her executrix of the estate called and said, “You better sit down.” And I thought, “oh, no,” I thought we were hoping for, you know, maybe a million dollars, maybe because she kind of hinted that it might be that much. I thought, “Oh, I’m going to have to tell them that it’s not anywhere near that.” And they said, “it’s north of 30 million, and it’s all offer scholarships, all for students.” And, you know, Jim, this comes full circle for me, because I was so excited about that, that gift, what, what it means for the seminary, what it meant for the seminary, and now my son is starting seminary. Yeah. And I could not have anticipated that at all. When this happened, this happened. But it’s, I think, wow. So, I have so many reasons to be grateful. We all do. We all have so many reasons to be grateful. And so, I have to figure out more ways that I can give back and give because I have just, I’ve just received in abundance and so you think of someone like, like Mrs. Ellis, who lived very simply and her story. When she was a nurse, and she started investing in the stock market when she was a teenager, just a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time, left to be in her 90s. Some of those stocks did very well. And she lived. So simply, she lived extremely, by simply and shared what she had. And I see her as a role model and just wow. So, when but we can all be this way. Right? That’s probably not your next question. But um, that’s it? That’s where I’m going with this is to save my team. Well, I don’t have $35 million. It’s okay. We kind of circled back to what I said at the beginning. Generosity isn’t just about money. It’s about getting up in the morning, with the intention to be generous during the day. And what does that look like? And oftentimes, it looks like giving someone an extra minute to share a thought that they’re having, or, you know, a little extra grace toward a co-worker, or the little patience with the person at the Starbucks drive thru. And that’s generosity. And so, every one of us can practice generosity every day.
Jim Dunlop 21:11
I think that is, you know, I think that is so wise to remember. And it’s common sense, but we find ourselves getting impatient, oftentimes, with each other, or we’re more with the anonymous people, you know, you think of people driving, I have a new driver in my family and tried to remind her just to give grace. Be patient. And also, just because the light turned green, still be aware that somebody may not be paying attention going the other way. And it’s good to give them grace and save your neck at the same time. Exactly.
Angela Zimmann 21:48
Yeah. And that’s generosity, right there.
Jim Dunlop 21:52
Yep. So, I know that one of your kind of personal principles related to this is this idea of leaving room at the margin. Tell me a little bit more about the idea of leaving room at the margin in life.
Angela Zimmann 22:08
Yes, and I don’t do it well enough, I don’t do it well enough at all. And so that’s why I wanted to talk about it. Because it reminds me that when I am, I’m a person who likes to schedule myself tightly, I’m a type A person, and I like to do things and get it done. And, you know, and then I don’t have a lot of time for that generosity, and, and grace. And so, when I first heard about the leave room at the margins, it was a financial piece that I had heard someone say, they said, “Well, if you if you spend all your money, you know, if you, if you don’t set any aside, mindfully, then you don’t have any margin, you can’t give any money.” And that makes perfect sense. You know, if you spend more than you earn or spend all that you earn, and you don’t have any margin to give, so through that margin, but it extends beyond just money again. And so, it is about time and energy. In order to be generous, we have to leave a little space at the margins, we can’t drive ourselves right up against the wall with overscheduling, and whatever else, you know, add the money, all of those pieces, we need to leave room in the margins of our life, so that we can be generous with others. And in the end, that’s what brings us joy not having our schedule or our bank account down to zero or our schedule. Now I’ve heard some people say, “Well, I want to die with zero in the bank.” But I think that there’s a book out there that just came out. I don’t know anything about that. I don’t remember the title, but I thought it’s like how to die with zero in the bank. And maybe it’s a wonderful book about generosity, in which case, I would say great, but I haven’t read it.
Jim Dunlop 23:43
So, I can’t speak for that, I haven’t either. Now curious. And yeah, I’m going to check it out.
Angela Zimmann 23:47
Because, you know, I do hear people say, it’s better to give with a warm hand than a cold hand because you get to experience the joy of it. So rather than leaving a lot in your estate plans, give it while you’re alive. So, if the idea is to give down to zero, you’re alive. I’m, I’m okay with that.
Jim Dunlop 24:05
Yeah, you know, and our, I think the impetus of our show is you can’t take it with you meaning right if you if you do have that margin, be thoughtful about it. But also, good financial planning says don’t bankrupt yourself, either. Don’t spend it all. I really like this idea, Angela, and I’ll probably steal it and use it with others just as I think there’s just so much logic and, and, and also generosity tucked inside of that. So, I know that there’s a couple of different things you said today that I would love to put on a billboard but one thing that I would put on a billboard that might be counterintuitive to people is this idea of Angela says money—Angela’s been saying money can be used to buy happiness. Tell me about that. Right?
Angela Zimmann 24:59
While this comes down to the idea of behavioral economics, and I do a lot of reading and behavioral economics, I think it’s fascinating, and Harvard Business School has a lot of really great articles that you can read about behavioral economics. And there they talk about; you know why giving to others makes us happy. Um, so not it’s, it’s proven that it does. I mean, there’s research out there that says giving others makes people happy. And now they’re going deeper and saying, “Well, what is it about that that is making people happy?” But so that’s why I say money can buy happiness if we give it away. And right, then one of the examples that one of the Harvard Business School articles, I think it was an article written by Michael Blanding. And I think it’s why giving to others makes us happiest the name of the article, but I have to double check that, but the in the article, the author of a study, actually, talks about how if you, if you if you buy something for yourself, it gives you a certain amount of joy. But if you buy the same thing and give it to someone else, people record garnering more joy from the giving and way. And so, this is just the one small example of how we can have money we can spend it on ourselves. And yet, we might have some happiness, well, I won’t deny that there are times I buy something for myself, and it makes me happy, right? I enjoy those things. And that’s great. And I think we should. I’m not talking, I’m not telling people that they should deny themselves joy, or indulgences at certain times. But I will say that there have been times when I buy things for others that make me much more, much more happy than that, and give me greater joy than when I buy from myself. So over, I think that money can make us happy when we give it away. Maybe Jim Dunlop would say, “Well, money can make us happy when we manage it well and have enough for ourselves that enough to give away and enough for our you know, all of those things.” And yeah, I think I think yeah, right.
Jim Dunlop 27:01
But you know, when we’re done on this earth. We can’t take it with us. So, you know, how can we be good stewards of it while we’re here, both for our families, but also for others, so we can buy happiness, and we need to give it away to do that. Buy the extreme happiness, right?
Angela Zimmann 27:20
I would agree, the more lasting, you know, maybe it’s one of these things where buying something for ourselves makes us happy. But giving it away or helping someone else brings us joy, which is deeper than deeper and more lasting than happiness can ever be.
Jim Dunlop 27:35
Gotcha. So, I have to ask, you know, your, your parents, you know, dad, dad finally gets through college, and I know he became a teacher, and that you’re the only child they get you through college gets you this great degree, and you’re going to go into industrial engineering. And then at some point, you come back to him and say, “I’m going to go to seminary.” How did they react to that? What was their reaction as that unfolded for you?
Angela Zimmann 28:10
Well, I will say this, my dad, my dad says this very proudly, “I never paid a penny for your college education,” which he didn’t because I had a full scholarship. And I went to a state school because that was where I could. But the, the, my, my mother—of blessed memory—she’s no longer with us on this side of existence. But she was happy about it, I think and felt like this was always a more fitting calling for me. She had worked as a secretary at a steno pool back in the 50s with a bunch of engineers. And she said, “You’re, you’re she’s like, you’re not you’re no, you’re no engineer, you can do numbers and that you’re going to be the most miserable, miserable person.” So, she was happy for me. I think my dad was initially somewhat shocked and, and disappointed, but he’s come around, he’s definitely come around. He’s fine with it. I’m fine with it. Now. Our kids don’t do what we expect them to do, necessarily. And that’s okay. Because they really, you know, are what the wisdom says they are from us, but they are not us. And they need to do their own thing. So, my parents always wanted me to be my own person. And I’ve tried to do the best I can to be not my not my own person, but God’s person. Because that’s really who we all belong to and what’s what, what, that at least in my theology.
Jim Dunlop 29:48
I have to imagine, though, that your generosity, your parents probably had a pretty big influence on that value as well.
Angela Zimmann 29:58
Yes, they were completely, and my dad, both my mom and my dad are some of the most generous people. And as I said, there wasn’t always money with which to be generous. But there was time, and there was love. And I very well remember growing up and having my mom put her offering in her envelope for Epiphany Lutheran Church every week and put it on our plate. And sometimes there wasn’t much extra, but we needed it. So absolutely. And I tried to model that for my children on generosity and that life is better when we share.
Jim Dunlop 30:36
Yeah, well, having met both your children, I think you’re doing a great job. Because I think they’re pretty generous in their own ways. And so well done.
Angela Zimmann 30:47
Well, thank you, we just, we just do the best we can. We’re, we’re here to serve. And it’s a great gift.
Jim Dunlop 30:53
So, Angela, thank you so much for taking time today. Any final thoughts, or things that you want to share with our listeners, before we wrap up?
Angela Zimmann 31:08
I just want to thank you, Jim. And thank the listeners for, I want to thank you for, the time and the opportunity to be here for your friendship and for your guidance, because you do make it possible for people to give. And that’s a wonderful, wonderful service that you provide and a wonderful ministry, I would say you’re doing a very important ministry. So, thank you for that. And to the listeners, I would, I would just you know, I wish you well bless you in your lives. Remember that there’s always enough to be generous again, by money. If it doesn’t work one way it can, it can work the other way. And please know how grateful that the people who will receive your gifts may not. You may not ever hear from them directly how grateful they are. But then gratitude is beyond measure. I think about the gratitude I have for the people who gave that allowed me the opportunity to experience what I’ve done, and I cannot quantify the gratitude I feel. So please take, take the gratitude that I have and internalize it because it’s out there for you as well. Thanks so much.
Jim Dunlop 32:17
Thank you, Angela. I think you’ve gotten some really practical thoughts from Angela on just even generosity with the fellow drivers on the road. If you would like to find out more about Angela, you can find her at wilson.edu. I know. She’s also on LinkedIn. And so, thank you so much, Angela, and we’ll talk to you real soon.
Angela Zimmann 32:40
Thank you. Bye.
Outro 32:43
Thanks for joining us to hear stories of generosity that remind us that you can’t take it with you. Visit our site at canttakeitwithyou.com for more details on today’s episode, and to subscribe to future shows.
Disclosure 33:03
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